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> Svn Test Sept 7 8pm Eastern, New Shooting, new death cam
Nathan Hale
post Sep 7 2010, 01:27 AM
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We'll be having a test of SVN running on Tues Sept 7, 2010 at 8 pm eastern time. The server will be the SVN North America Test Server as provided by OBCD. We'll be testing:

-new death cam
-new shooting physics
-maybe the ticket gameplay system if we can do it

This is an open test, so feel free to join.


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Ad-Man
post Sep 7 2010, 02:25 AM
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Instructions on installing the svn here: http://forums.bgmod.com//index.php?showtopic=1725


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Forlorn_Hope
post Sep 7 2010, 03:57 AM
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I know I'll be there.


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Forlorn_Hope
post Sep 8 2010, 02:54 AM
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OK, so, we had a small handful of people do the SVN. We need more people to help out with this. Do any of you want to actually see the next version released?


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Nathan Hale
post Sep 8 2010, 03:13 AM
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The ticket gameplay system was the highlight of the night-- it really added a new dimension to LMS type play.


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wellington
post Sep 8 2010, 02:31 PM
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WHY!??? Why add this delay to shooting! It's completly stupid.... Linebattle will no longer be about skill, but all about luck! There might be shooters of equall skills in each line however the one with the most luck, fires first.....
It's gay.. No offense, I do not mean the word in any discreminating way (Taking that anyone who reads this can be homosexual)- I am simply just expressing my oppinon to this...Delay.

Have a nice day!
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Ad-Man
post Sep 8 2010, 03:20 PM
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It will not make the shooting more luck dependant as the delay is not going to be variable. All it means is that you have to lead moving targets more realistically.


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QUOTE (Copywright (wallhacker/bad modeler))
BGu had a chance of coming back but Roob failed sad really
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Forlorn_Hope
post Sep 8 2010, 03:30 PM
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Wellington, I'll freely admit to not understanding your concern... Aren't line battles entirely about luck as it is? And, everyone has the exact same delays even now. If two people pull the trigger at the exact same time, they'll both fire at the exact same time, that hasn't changed. Just like in the current version, if someone fires first, that person will hit first.

If you could detail exactly how you see this as having a major effect, I might understand your concerns a bit better.


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wellington
post Sep 8 2010, 04:45 PM
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It has nothing to do with luck... Just ask the 83rd or 29th!
It's about disciplin, speed, aiming, and teamwork! All of these are something we lbers constantly train, and adding this #hitish delay, would make a BIG difference, in a lb every BLOODY second matters....

This post has been edited by wellington: Sep 8 2010, 04:46 PM
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Forlorn_Hope
post Sep 8 2010, 04:49 PM
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Walk me through, step by step, what is happening on both sides, to display how adding a delay to the firing sequence will effect the outcome of a line battle, please. Right now you're attempting to appeal to emotion to prove a point, and you're doing so with a group of people who are working with something rather unemotional, in this case, a game engine.


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gRanTeLbArT
post Sep 8 2010, 05:20 PM
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Isn't firing first always firing first no matter if we put the same delay into firing for everyone?


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Forlorn_Hope
post Sep 8 2010, 05:34 PM
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One would think so, yes. But I want Wellington to really explain what he's talking about. Frankly, I'd love it if all the different line battling people came on the forums to join in the discussion.


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Ad-Man
post Sep 8 2010, 05:42 PM
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What happens in 2.0:

You click fire and the ball leaves the barrel.

What happens in the SVN:

You click fire and 0.1 seconds later the ball leaves the barrel.

So for a moving target you have to aim where they will be 0.1 seconds after where you would aim for now.


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QUOTE (Copywright (wallhacker/bad modeler))
BGu had a chance of coming back but Roob failed sad really
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gRanTeLbArT
post Sep 8 2010, 05:53 PM
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QUOTE (Ad-Man @ Sep 8 2010, 07:42 PM) *
So for a moving target you have to aim where they will be 0.1 seconds after where you would aim for now.


Which isn't so terribly hard for a line, in linebattle


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Nathan Hale
post Sep 8 2010, 06:19 PM
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We have located some realistic data in terms of bullet velocity and flint lock delay time, which we will scale to BG2. This will make firing more realistic, but not overly difficult. We are extensively testing the shooting between now and the next release. So while there will be changes, they won't ruin the game for you.

So far in testing the difference between the new version and 2.0 is pretty small. The delay is slightly longer, but you'd be surprised how little. The difference is slight, but the numbers much more realistic.


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Nathan Hale
post Sep 9 2010, 03:22 AM
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Another night, another test. This was an ad hoc test we just brewed up on the spot. We've mocked up some velocities and a proposed lock delay time already.

The different weapons will likely have varied and rather realistic velocities based on their types, once this is done.

Rifles will have the highest bullet speed, muskets next, followed by buckshot and with pistol the slowest. This reflects real chronograph results for guns.


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wellington
post Sep 9 2010, 12:04 PM
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QUOTE (Forlorn_Hope @ Sep 8 2010, 06:49 PM) *
Walk me through, step by step, what is happening on both sides, to display how adding a delay to the firing sequence will effect the outcome of a line battle, please. Right now you're attempting to appeal to emotion to prove a point, and you're doing so with a group of people who are working with something rather unemotional, in this case, a game engine.



One sentence.. "Timing is everything"

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Quite Churlishly
post Sep 9 2010, 02:09 PM
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What do you need to worry about bullet delay for if in a line battle you just sit there and do volleys?


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3DDEATH
post Sep 9 2010, 02:51 PM
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QUOTE (Quite Churlishly @ Sep 9 2010, 03:09 PM) *
What do you need to worry about bullet delay for if in a line battle you just sit there and do volleys?



Why we even talking about linebattles what has happen to u dev team members, Calling all NON DEV TEAM MEMBERS TEST The Mod before there is no mod, don't let them ruin it for good.


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QUOTE (gRanTeLbArT @ Aug 25 2007, 02:47 PM) *
I will tell you what I think, this is horrible. Like all the other remakes of BG1 maps. There is a reason why we do not do that in any form. Do not bother to remake old bg1 maps. BG1 was a totally different game as draco pointed out and the maps are not going to work out on BG2.






Rejoice in thy youth,soon it will be gone
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Ad-Man
post Sep 9 2010, 04:53 PM
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Word


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Do you cant read me ? Not read ..
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QUOTE (Copywright (wallhacker/bad modeler))
BGu had a chance of coming back but Roob failed sad really
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hairypotter
post Sep 9 2010, 06:16 PM
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QUOTE (3DDEATH @ Sep 9 2010, 02:51 PM) *
talking about linebattles what has happen to u dev team members, Calling all NON DEV TEAM MEMBERS TEST The Mod before there is no mod, don't let them ruin it for good.


DEATH is right. Srsly.
If you want to see something changed, it's better to voice that BEFORE the release; Not 2 weeks afterwards.


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fa⋅ce⋅tious  [fuh-see-shuhs] –adjective
1. not meant to be taken seriously or literally: a facetious remark.
2. amusing; humorous.
3. lacking serious intent; concerned with something nonessential, amusing, or frivolous: a BG2 developer.


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gRanTeLbArT
post Sep 9 2010, 08:04 PM
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I think someone here was angry that he wasn't heard by the dev team before we did anything. We didn't even hear his opinion on breathing.


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Forlorn_Hope
post Sep 9 2010, 08:36 PM
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No no Grantel, Death is entirely correct on this one. Non-Dev people DO need to get involved in the testing, as we've been saying the entire time. It's the whole reason the SVN is available for everyone to download.

Now, Wellington, "timing is everything" means absolutely nothing to me.

Let me illustrate exactly how I see things, and, please, do the same on your end:

In the current version of BG2: Line A forms up in front of Line B. .5 seconds later, Line A fires. .25 seconds after that, Line B fires.
Now, because the distance from Line A to Line B is the same as the distance from Line B to Line A, it can be presumed that the rounds fired take the same amount of time to impact. Let's say, for argument's sake, .3 seconds.

So now, .8 seconds after forming up, Line A's rounds impact Line B, and 1.05 seconds after lining up, Line B's rounds impact Line A. Casualties are taken on both sides.

Now, with the version in the works, Line A and Line B form up and fire as before, for .5 seconds and .75 seconds firing time, post-formation.
They both have a .1 second delay before the rounds actually fire according to the game, so .6 seconds and .85 seconds.
However, because we can now go beyond the 1200fps second threshold the source engine constrains objects to, muskets are firing at, say, 1400fps. So let's say it's a .2 second travel time for the rounds.
All of a sudden, you have... .8 and 1.05 yet again, showing to be the exact same as the scenario before.

Taking all this into consideration, I truly cannot see how this will break line battles.


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"Forlorn basically said everything right." Codename:V
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analord_is_sexy
post Sep 9 2010, 09:34 PM
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work on the hitboxes.mostimportantthing.
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Quite Churlishly
post Sep 10 2010, 01:18 PM
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When's the next scheduled test?


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