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> Iron Sights Test
{22nd} Sol
post Jun 5 2009, 05:23 PM
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With the help of Tottel and hogan we created this:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yKXVBk4k3KM
Soz about shit quality, cant really see the site thingy on the barrel.
Obv. its very basic, done in an hour or so.
But its better than nothing that we got atm.


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analord
post Jun 5 2009, 05:31 PM
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Well, good work
Its a nice start anyway


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hairypotter
post Jun 5 2009, 07:53 PM
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Ew, models need more detailed skins.
Also, the lock of the weapon overwhelms the screen, maybe if the fov was moved back..

Edit: I guess I'm thinking about howwe could use this to influence gameplay a little more. Rather than simply making guns more accurate.. Maybe we could drop the accuracy for snipers when firing from the hip but increase it when aiming... Perhaps prevent movement when using "Iron Sights".. Hmm


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{22nd} Sol
post Jun 5 2009, 08:20 PM
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Yeh, the skins could do with a little update.
The problem with moving the fov back any more is the right hand gets in the way.
- in response to edit:
Thats what I was thinking, drop accuracy on all hip firing and have the same level of accuracy as we get at the moment when using iron sights. Perhaps limit movement speed to that of walking.

This post has been edited by {22nd} Sol: Jun 5 2009, 08:22 PM


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Nathan Hale
post Jun 6 2009, 01:52 AM
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You guys beat me to it-- I thought about this and yes: hip fire accuracy should be very low, iron sights would be roughly the same as now. The difference is that the rifles would have full rear and front sights (notch and stand type). The muskets would basically be as they are now. They might need the addition of the bayonet lug to aim from. Hip shooting would be reduced to emergency close up work only.

Iron sights would have a melee penalty: you can't stab from iron sights, but rather you have to drop back to hip sights and then you can use your bayonet as before. The lock action needs to be faster-- the hammer on these comes down pretty crisply.

Movement speed in iron sights would be very slow. We might be able to work some effects in iron sights (for example there should be a somewhat distracting flash from the pan in iron sights, though nothing too severe). A little drift of the gun in IS should be present too-- the long guns are HEAVY.

This is a pretty good start, though we'd need a few of these little things to come together too.


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Jupa
post Jun 6 2009, 02:11 AM
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You should be able to see your right hand while holding a musket, also the lock is probably too large to begin with.

Amazing work Sol, good job.



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Nathan Hale
post Jun 6 2009, 03:05 AM
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QUOTE (Jupa @ Jun 5 2009, 10:11 PM) *
You should be able to see your right hand while holding a musket, also the lock is probably too large to begin with.

Amazing work Sol, good job.



This is true-- for awhile I couldn't put my finger on what looked weird, but it is the lock-- it seems a bit big. That said, I believe some of other guns have smaller locks. I'm pretty sure the new Revolutionaire has a smaller lock than the default Bess.

Moving FOV back a touch probably will be fine for now-- I think the big lock can be compensated a bit in that regard.


Needless to say, I really appreciate the third party work going on here-- this is great stuff.


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Nathan Hale
post Jun 6 2009, 04:55 AM
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I'll also add-- I've been working on an American Brown Bess copy musket ("state militia musket") skin, and it does have a much darker stock than the regular British one. If anyone is interested in it, I can send it to them if it will help with these iron sights at all.


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Tottel
post Jun 6 2009, 07:40 AM
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We've been optimizing it.. Right now, I've added 4 more accuracy types ( all in IronSight mode ): Crouch still/crouch moving/stand still/stand moving.

I'm working on the different movement speeds while in IS mode.. Should I let them stand still when in IS mode.. ?
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{22nd} Sol
post Jun 6 2009, 09:31 AM
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About the actual "sights" on the brownbess, didn't they have a little notch of metal like you can see at the end of the barrel on this one:

I really think the hand needs a re-skin as well if you want the fov moved back:

-10

-14
Plus, one of the fire animations messes up a bit and moves the gun model 'into' your view as you can see in the final shot I take in the video. The others are fine though.


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gRanTeLbArT
post Jun 6 2009, 03:10 PM
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the problem really is that the shape of the hand does not match the shape of the coat there - you kind of look into the "inside" of the hand through a gap. As well as the low resolution texture of the hand.


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Nathan Hale
post Jun 6 2009, 05:45 PM
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That is not a sight per se, but rather the metal lug that secures the bayonet to the barrel.

It would be a little nub of metal that would lock into this:



It should be located right over the socket where the bayonet is. It's not "tall" like a sight would be, but it just a nub so the bayonet will lock-in. What you have already is on the right track, though maybe reshaped a bit to be a little shorter and fatter. But basically yeah-- that's what passes for a front sight on the military muskets. Charleville, Revo would all be the same sort of arrangement.

If you look at the picture you put up and the bayonet here, you'll see that it's just a socket kind of thing. Slide on and twist to lock in. But you're fairly close in terms of what you're doing. Just a couple tweaks would finish it up, I think.


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Nathan Hale
post Jun 7 2009, 06:24 AM
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I've scripted in IS for a number of the other weapons, including the Jaeger rifle-- both front and rear sights should align on the Jaeger now.






I've done a set for all long guns that are basically consistent in look. The hand is in the foreground, looking down the barrel.


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Nathan Hale
post Jun 7 2009, 07:37 AM
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At this point I've done scripts for all guns EXCEPT the british pistol, which I haven't had time to get to yet. I'll grab that soon. THey have been added to the current SVN version and you can try them now on our test beta.


And for those who like pistols:



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{22nd} Sol
post Jun 7 2009, 10:15 AM
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Looking good Nathan.
I really don't think the look should include being able to see your right hand though, I mean, unless you can get a really nice new high res skin of it then its just making the whole thing look a bit shite - out of context you would just think it was a pink blob.
Having said that the pistol looks great with the hand visible.
EDIT: Just took a look on SVN and its coming along great. Fantastic work Nathan smile.gif
Just need to make it so it disables the crosshair when you're zoomed in and we're laughing

This post has been edited by {22nd} Sol: Jun 7 2009, 11:59 AM


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gRanTeLbArT
post Jun 7 2009, 02:21 PM
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How do you enter IS mode? left click is used for hip shot and right click for bayonets on many weapons


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{22nd} Sol
post Jun 7 2009, 02:32 PM
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Centre mouse button.
bind MOUSE3 "ironsights"


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Nathan Hale
post Jun 7 2009, 04:43 PM
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Or you can bind in the normal controls menu-- I use Keypad 1.

I've stacked it up a bit and it seems to me that on most of these guns you can see your hand in the foreground as this blurry object right below your face (blurry because you're looking down the barrel). I wonder if it might be possible to do a hand reskin with a little better skin. Moving it forward of the hand might have to be done, but then you get the "giant lock" syndrome where the lock is bigger than the screen.

So I think, maybe a hand reskin. Then if that doesn't work, move the fov.

I talked to HP and we decided that we would:

-remove cl_crosshair in IS mode
-add tunnel vision in IS mode: where the edges of the screen fade-out a bit while in IS mode to simulate the tunnel vision of looking down the barrel at a target down range
-remove the idle animation in IS mode, check to see if the reload animation loops back to its original position or is off target

-Bonzo suggested that we also have being in IS mode be a stamina drain to an extent-- I agree with that since we don't want people in IS mode walking around the entire time. These are heavy guns and you can't hold them up for terribly long without some fatigue.


-the lower left main hud will be removed in IS mode (it already is now)
-I believe that hit notifications will be delayed until you leave IS mode to reload or go to hip for bayonet (that way they don't magically appear over the gun in IS mode). Near as I can figure this simulates the moment where you pull down the gun to see if you've hit your target.


Edit: thread moved into the beta test area since we've reached the phase now where people can test in SVN.


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Nathan Hale
post Jun 7 2009, 08:19 PM
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For those working on this: here is a shot of a live fire smoothbore event of someone lining up and firing on a target. Because the gun has no rear sights and only a nub at the end, you get your face down as level as possible to keep the sight on proper target.



This should inform any FOV work on iron sights, if possible. It was a basic model for me when I did mine. Though mine are by no means final or definitive, and any useful changes or ideas are welcomed.


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Nathan Hale
post Jun 8 2009, 03:04 AM
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Historical skin update to Pennsy, also got the British Tower Sea Pistol iron sight going.



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Dubyah
post Jun 8 2009, 07:30 AM
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they works good


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Nathan Hale
post Jun 9 2009, 03:23 AM
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If anyone knows someone who does weapon model animations, please drop us a line.

We're currently having a problem where after reloading the gun does not fully return to the proper ironsight position, rather it is a little above where it should be. This could be fixed by modifying the reload animation so the gun returns to its original position. An animator would probably know how to fix this, but we don't have one.

If anyone on these forums knows one, please send him along to this site or put up some contact information for him. It's probably a relatively simple fix, but we don't have an animator on board right now it seems.


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Dubyah
post Jun 9 2009, 09:04 AM
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i used to know an animator but he got lost in the mail


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gRanTeLbArT
post Jun 9 2009, 03:18 PM
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Are you sure about this? One shouldnt be able to stay in IS after a reload, so you could make people return to the idle animation of the normal hip level firing stance and make them bring up IS from there


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Nathan Hale
post Jun 9 2009, 05:36 PM
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QUOTE (gRanTeLbArT @ Jun 9 2009, 11:18 AM) *
Are you sure about this? One shouldnt be able to stay in IS after a reload, so you could make people return to the idle animation of the normal hip level firing stance and make them bring up IS from there



HP played around with the idle animation, but I don't know if he tried exactly that or not.

What we were finding is you are in IS, shoot, then reload. The gun returns to hip position. Then you go back to IS but it's too high for where the bullet fires. HP probably would know if he tried the sequence you suggest though.


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