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> Public Linebattles, how do other clans handle public rules?
James Asner
post Apr 25 2011, 05:37 AM
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I've been hearing from public players and noticing in their actions that maybe other servers don't linebattle according to TRR rules. Maybe you don't make the players adhere to strict formation or address gaps in the lines EVERY round. Maybe they can skirmish with however many players they want. Maybe they can even reload in charges and ignore various other rules. I won't pretend to know how other servers run linebattles for the public but if you don't run them according to TRR rules then that's not a linebattle.

I don't want to lecture anyone but we use those rules to make linebattle matches fair and fun for both sides and not frustrating. 29th server has it's own rules like no public commanders and strict limit on weapon choice. It doesn't bother anyone if you don't do the same. It does bother me when a player kills a commander or rambos, ghosts or ignores a command and fires outside a volley. Again, I don't know who's doing it but it needs to stop. Linebattle has been a tradition that dates back to LONG before these new clans ever heard of the game. It's been popular and has done just fine with the rules available and messing with that formula is only going to fuck things up.

So, if you don't know the rules or need a refresher I would be more than happy to help anyone or any clan with an in-game training. I enjoy linebattling too much to see it turned into something lazy and disorganized.


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Forlorn_Hope
post Apr 25 2011, 06:38 AM
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I'm going to chip in my half a cent:

As far as TRR line battling rules go, I founded the clan with Arquebusier a long, long time ago. (I don't even remember when that happened now.) But that was back in the day when it was a training unit for the Kings Royal Rifles and the Company of Select Marksmen, which means it was back in BG1. Keep in mind, that there are some new elements in BG2 that simply weren't a consideration then. There weren't weapons to choose from amongst the classes, and there were only three classes. It didn't make sense to allow for riflemen in the ranks.

What I'm getting at is that the TRR rules shouldn't be the be all and end all, simply because they're the oldest. As the game changes, rules SHOULD be updated.

Now, that being said: Any server running a line battle really must have an admin overseeing it. This is something we learned years ago, and I think may have been forgotten over time. If a server doesn't have an admin, it is wisest to simply revert back to a skirmish map or an LMS map. Simply put, a line battle is an organized event, and needs to be treated as such, with someone overseeing it. Whether that means having more admins or less line battles is obviously up to the server owners.

These are simply my thoughts on the matter, though they are thoughts gathered from years of experience.


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klifsnider
post Apr 25 2011, 12:50 PM
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I've been hearing from public players and noticing in their actions that maybe other servers don't skirmish according to BGU rules. Maybe you don't make the players adhere to strict tactics or capping the flags EVERY round. Maybe they can have as many officers as they want. Maybe they can even use buckshot and ignore various other rules. I won't pretend to know how other servers run skirmishes for the public but if you don't run them according to BGU rules then that's not a skirmish.

I don't want to lecture anyone but we use those rules to make skirmish matches fair and fun for both sides and not frustrating. 29th server has it's own rules like no commanders and strict limit on weapon choice. It doesn't bother anyone if you don't do the same. It does bother me when a player doesn't block a fullcap, ghosts or doesn't stick to the tactic. Again, I don't know who's doing it but it needs to stop. Skirmish has been a tradition that dates back to LONG before these new clans ever heard of the game. It's been popular and has done just fine with the rules available and messing with that formula is only going to fuck things up.

So, if you don't know the rules or need a refresher I would be more than happy to help anyone or any clan with an in-game training. I enjoy skirmishing too much to see it turned into something lazy and disorganized.


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Idol_analord
post Apr 25 2011, 12:54 PM
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I have something for u. fuck all your 24/7 linebattle 16 tick bullshit servers and let the people play the game how they want and enjoy it.


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mpc
post Apr 25 2011, 01:12 PM
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I have to agree that the TRR rules which Arquebusier + others made tons of years ago have not been edited within our clan during the last few new versions of BG2, the simple reason of it really I guess is we have not had time to look at it or we still like how they are. We have however done some changes which have not yet been written down. For instance since the introduction of the new weapons and ironsight, we have (obviously) added (which probably every other clan has added 2) that the commanders choose which weapon we shall use for each team, and that we shall use ironsight while aiming.

Also, not that many of the LB clans nowadays use our rules really. I only know that 47th use our rules (atleast Hawke told me they did when I asked him once). The rest I think uses the rule set which was made for the old LB league by Livgarden. Both rules are basically the same, except for something to do with TRR only allow platoons down to 5 numbers, while they allow it down to 3, and something to do with skirmishing after you are down to three numbers. Something we do not like using (which is why TRR always stand in line until we are all dead or given the order to charge).

Also a lot of the rules we have set are never in use anymore because its too formal or old fashioned. For instance, in the old days (and it is still written in the rules) that all teams had to write: '!S' in chat to tell the other team they are ready to begin the LB, nowadays when the round starts, the LB starts.


Here's the complete list: List of TRR's LB Rules

This post has been edited by mpc: Apr 25 2011, 01:14 PM


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gRanTeLbArT
post Apr 25 2011, 01:24 PM
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QUOTE (Idol_analord @ Apr 25 2011, 02:54 PM) *
I have something for u. fuck all your 24/7 linebattle 16 tick bullshit servers and let the people play the game how they want and enjoy it.


In fact, you can still do that once in a while. Many "skirmish" players just complain instead of checking the server list and joining games. It's not fair to keep complaining and shouting about LB servers until you've got foam on your mouth without even checking back with the reality. I haven't really seen you play actively on public servers. So if you don't actually play the game I will ask you politely to shut up.

QUOTE (klifsnider @ Apr 25 2011, 02:50 PM) *
I've been hearing from public players and noticing in their actions that maybe other servers don't skirmish according to BGU rules. Maybe you don't make the players adhere to strict tactics or capping the flags EVERY round. Maybe they can have as many officers as they want. Maybe they can even use buckshot and ignore various other rules. I won't pretend to know how other servers run skirmishes for the public but if you don't run them according to BGU rules then that's not a skirmish.

I don't want to lecture anyone but we use those rules to make skirmish matches fair and fun for both sides and not frustrating. 29th server has it's own rules like no commanders and strict limit on weapon choice. It doesn't bother anyone if you don't do the same. It does bother me when a player doesn't block a fullcap, ghosts or doesn't stick to the tactic. Again, I don't know who's doing it but it needs to stop. Skirmish has been a tradition that dates back to LONG before these new clans ever heard of the game. It's been popular and has done just fine with the rules available and messing with that formula is only going to fuck things up.

So, if you don't know the rules or need a refresher I would be more than happy to help anyone or any clan with an in-game training. I enjoy skirmishing too much to see it turned into something lazy and disorganized.


very funny..

The thing is, unlike skirmishing, line battling isn't nearly as arbitrary. There is a certain form that should be stuck to. I understand asner's concern. I'd add however that is natural that some people won't fire in volleys, and rather order to fire at will, or that some people in the line simply miss it.

Popular things like LB usually degrade. The masses always need a more simple and accessible thing to do. However, since LBs are always organized by clans, those clans should do their best to keep up a higher standard. Once people learn to play it without the proper rules, it will be much harder to enforce the high standards for the clans that still do.


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klifsnider
post Apr 25 2011, 01:41 PM
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I have nothing against LBs, I have something against people with 0 skill saying they will train other clans. xD


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Codename:V
post Apr 25 2011, 01:45 PM
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Are you for real dude? This topic is a joke. You can't tell someone how to run rules on their server whether it's linebattle or skirmish. This isn't a linebattle game so you can't expect public servers to have a standard of rules running on every server at all times. People buy servers to do what they want with them and set their own rules. That's like me asking that all non linebattle servers run the bgu config on every map. If you're playing public, then it's always going to be different. That will never change. Forlorn basically said everything right. Without admin spectators/commanders, nothing will ever run properly.
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Nathan Hale
post Apr 25 2011, 02:24 PM
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You guys are free to play by what rules you will, but I will add that a certain variety of weapons in use is historically acceptable. Battles in the Revolution often involved a variety of muskets, both old and new, in use by various units. If you want to get down to really detailed history levels where you recreate a particular unit on a particular date in a particular place of action, then you'd be dealing with the issue of using a certain weapon set based on historical records. That's doable, but pretty narrow in terms of the scope you're looking at. I tend to think the variety of weapons (mainly different war muskets) you see in an LB where people just pick is actually somewhat representative of the variety and chaos of different weapons that would appear on an 18th century battlefield in a colonial setting.



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gRanTeLbArT
post Apr 25 2011, 02:55 PM
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QUOTE (Nathan Hale @ Apr 25 2011, 04:24 PM) *
You guys are free to play by what rules you will, but I will add that a certain variety of weapons in use is historically acceptable. Battles in the Revolution often involved a variety of muskets, both old and new, in use by various units. If you want to get down to really detailed history levels where you recreate a particular unit on a particular date in a particular place of action, then you'd be dealing with the issue of using a certain weapon set based on historical records. That's doable, but pretty narrow in terms of the scope you're looking at. I tend to think the variety of weapons (mainly different war muskets) you see in an LB where people just pick is actually somewhat representative of the variety and chaos of different weapons that would appear on an 18th century battlefield in a colonial setting.


The british units would of course be expected to be more uniform/maybe even completely uniform in the weapon that they are fielding. But you couldn't expect the same from the americans.


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James Asner
post Apr 25 2011, 05:20 PM
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QUOTE (Nathan Hale)
If you want to get down to really detailed history levels where you recreate a particular unit on a particular date in a particular place of action, then you'd be dealing with the issue of using a certain weapon set based on historical records.

I get it but this doesn't have anything to do with public linebattles. Special events and fort battles maybe.

QUOTE (Forlone Hope)
What I'm getting at is that the TRR rules shouldn't be the be all and end all, simply because they're the oldest. As the game changes, rules SHOULD be updated.

I'm not saying we use them because they're the oldest. I clearly said that because they WORK and work well that TRR rules are the ones to use.

QUOTE (Codename:V)
Are you for real dude? This topic is a joke. You can't tell someone how to run rules on their server whether it's linebattle or skirmish.

No, I can't. I can tell you that linebattling belongs to the community and if you go on strangways and do whatever the hell you want, don't call it linebattling.

QUOTE (Codename:V)
This isn't a linebattle game so you can't expect public servers to have a standard of rules running on every server at all times.

No it's not. It's not a game about deathruns. It's not a game about stealing flags. It's not a game about team deathmatch while standing on glass. It wasn't about fort battles. It wasn't about ANYTHING until someone decided to build that map and invent that game. The only difference is it's organized. We aren't even talking about the big stuff here or even the league rules. Fire in a volley, don't shoot commanders, address gaps and skirmish on the right number.

QUOTE (Klifsnider)
I've been hearing from public players and noticing in their actions that maybe other servers don't skirmish according to BGU rules.

Klif you are so reactionary. You don't care about this. Why are you here?

QUOTE (gRanTeLbArT)
The thing is, unlike skirmishing, line battling isn't nearly as arbitrary. There is a certain form that should be stuck to. I understand asner's concern. I'd add however that is natural that some people won't fire in volleys, and rather order to fire at will, or that some people in the line simply miss it.

Popular things like LB usually degrade. The masses always need a more simple and accessible thing to do. However, since LBs are always organized by clans, those clans should do their best to keep up a higher standard. Once people learn to play it without the proper rules, it will be much harder to enforce the high standards for the clans that still do.

Well put.

If people want to revisit the rules I'd consider that and pass it along to the CO's but I don't see anything that needs fixing.

This post has been edited by James Asner: Apr 25 2011, 05:29 PM


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klifsnider
post Apr 25 2011, 06:12 PM
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Oh, Jemes... When will you learn that videogames are not all about power, influence or control over other people?

P.S. My influence in bg2 > yours

LOL


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Ad-Man
post Apr 25 2011, 06:17 PM
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Actually todays "linebattles" are nothing like a real linebattle which takes place on the map "bg_linebattle" in BG1. All this follow the leader nonsense is ridiculous.


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James Asner
post Apr 25 2011, 06:23 PM
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QUOTE (klifsnider @ Apr 25 2011, 02:12 PM) *
Oh, Jemes... When will you learn that videogames are not all about power, influence or control over other people?

P.S. My influence in bg2 > yours

LOL

The rest of us are here to discuss linebattles and you're here to measure your dick? I still don't see your interest in this thread.


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klifsnider
post Apr 25 2011, 06:53 PM
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Hehe, you're not here to discuss linebattles. You're here to tell other server owners what to do.


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Im_So_Cool_Retar...
post Apr 25 2011, 07:57 PM
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Agree with that c*nt Codename... don't tell anyone how to run their server.

Jame Asner - who are you?

This game has ALWAYS been about skirmishing. Don't preach your nonsense here, dictator.


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gRanTeLbArT
post Apr 25 2011, 09:02 PM
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QUOTE (Im_So_Cool_Retart @ Apr 25 2011, 09:57 PM) *
Agree with that c*nt Codename... don't tell anyone how to run their server.

Jame Asner - who are you?

This game has ALWAYS been about skirmishing. Don't preach your nonsense here, dictator.


He is just saying that people who run linebattles should try to enforce line battle rules - whether or not his version of said rules is always applicable to casual public LBs is maybe something you could discuss with him. If you don't run line battles on your server, you don't need to be feel adressed by his post. But, of course you can state your opinion.


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LaBelle
post Apr 25 2011, 11:44 PM
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This topic is so pathetic I don't even know where to begin.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7cAiwq8Cxo0

Oh yeah. That's where. No, this isn't anti-TRR. It's anti-TRR dick sucking.

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Macs899
post Apr 26 2011, 12:16 AM
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The only TRR rule i demand that all clans adhere to is : "Always listen to 80s music during linebattles". Also, labelle, you handsome devil ;D


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Forlorn_Hope
post Apr 26 2011, 12:23 AM
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Again, it comes down to either more admins or less line battles. You can't expect the public community to be self-regulating.


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LaBelle
post Apr 26 2011, 12:38 AM
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QUOTE (Macs899 @ Apr 26 2011, 01:16 AM) *
The only TRR rule i demand that all clans adhere to is : "Always listen to 80s music during linebattles". Also, labelle, you handsome devil ;D



Rule will be upheld. I call Def Leppard. Also, OH YOU ;)
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James Asner
post Apr 26 2011, 12:53 AM
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QUOTE (LaBelle @ Apr 25 2011, 07:44 PM) *
This topic is so pathetic I don't even know where to begin.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7cAiwq8Cxo0

Oh yeah. That's where. No, this isn't anti-TRR. It's anti-TRR dick sucking.

Love it. Honored, really. One thing though. I don't have the tank and soldier dolls scattered around my desk. I have HL2 plushies. I'm a Valve-fag not a WW2 fag.


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LaBelle
post Apr 26 2011, 01:01 AM
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Those soldiers happen to be Todd MacFarlane Soldiers from the modern time period >: And those tanks...wait. You never played with toy soldiers as a kid?

The Hell, man? Your topic SUCKS.
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James Asner
post Apr 26 2011, 01:12 AM
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QUOTE (LaBelle @ Apr 25 2011, 09:01 PM) *
Those soldiers happen to be Todd MacFarlane Soldiers from the modern time period >: And those tanks...wait. You never played with toy soldiers as a kid?

GI joes and ninja turtles
QUOTE (LaBelle @ Apr 25 2011, 09:01 PM) *
The Hell, man? Your topic SUCKS.

It's generated a lot of chat and most people have setup camp in this thread. My favorite is Klif defending 12 year old admins playing a game mode he HATES. Keep spending that capital, buddy!


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LaBelle
post Apr 26 2011, 01:33 AM
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Woah now buddy, your generalization of the BG2 community continues to grow. Verily, thou hast defined thyself as a douchebag of the most highest Order. I knight thee, Sir Asner, Knight of the Arsehole Committee.

But for serials, calling all admins who let pubbers play by different(In your terms, "non-properized and such") "12 year olds" is silly. I created a different LB rule set, it was tried and well received. You don't see me pushing it on people in other servers. Sure, I set one up in my own server from time to time, but you don't see me acting all high and mighty on these here forums, just because I play by the TRR ruleset.

Simply put, it's not your place to tell people they need to adhere to one ruleset, as dated and desperate for an upgrade as it is. It's not my place either. So suck it up, sit the fuck down, play the game. Buy your own server, regulate it as you see fit. Leave the others alone.
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