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> Dev Team Members, And what they Do
3DDEATH
post Jun 18 2010, 03:47 AM
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Its been a growing concern and talk around our community that the Dev Team is recruiting like a Clan for one purpose and its not for the good of the mod. I think there should be somewhere on these forums explaining what there jobs are and How each person has helped improve this historic game. There also should be a blog somewhere for pubbers who like the mod but are having issues and need help. Its the young who are going to make the mod grow. My concern like any job is dead weight so it would be nice to get a list of real names not Bots of our talent controlling the mod if there is any or is it one big joke for Power. So how about it sound off, so the Community knows who u are if you can. I mean really I know of 6 on the Dev team who really do the work and the rest are advisers I take it. Ok I admin BGL because I give the mod a purpose, should I be on DEV team to, Slash and Haichman to. How about all these redirect links shouldn't they be DEV team member to. Come on who is really running the show here? Please post the truth and let it be known.


PS: u need to update homepage and one last note I see pubbers playing in AP server but there game there playing says Source SDK Base 2007

This post has been edited by 3DDEATH: Jun 18 2010, 03:49 AM


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QUOTE (gRanTeLbArT @ Aug 25 2007, 02:47 PM) *
I will tell you what I think, this is horrible. Like all the other remakes of BG1 maps. There is a reason why we do not do that in any form. Do not bother to remake old bg1 maps. BG1 was a totally different game as draco pointed out and the maps are not going to work out on BG2.






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AngryIRSAgent
post Jun 18 2010, 06:21 AM
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We r bot


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Ad-Man
post Jun 18 2010, 08:52 AM
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Thats a Steam issue, the source sdk base 2007. Played some BG1 last night and had everyone listed as in Half Life.


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Forlorn_Hope
post Jun 18 2010, 09:14 AM
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Well, Death, I hate to say it, but, the team really hasn't changed a whole heck of a lot over the past few years. I stepped aside when I enlisted, and came back when I was asked to, and I still know most of the names on the team and in the community. It is true, there are many people in an advisory role on the team, and a small cadre of physical workers, but thus far, the mod has been continuing to go in a good direction, so, in a nut shell, "If it ain't broke, don't fix it". However, if that was just your extremely round-about way of asking the team members to introduce themselves to the community, next time you shouldn't try to wrap it in some sort of quasi-complaint.


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TIEdup14
post Jun 18 2010, 11:13 AM
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Forlorn are you freakin kidding me?
The team has changed so much it's not even funny.

The dev team used to care about the community and the future of the mod-- now they simply troll and make incremental changes when convenient. There are TOO MANY people in "advisory" roles on the dev team. Dont try to sweep that fact under the rug.

Hell, look at Agent. Couldnt even muster up a serious reply to this thread. His past project Miningtown was a huge bust. And what kind of map is he working on next? Yet another failure in the making, a shitty fort map! Instead of giving people small, BGL maps that they ask for, he's going for another grandiose project. It'll be just like miningtown-- a map that no one plays.

You have been back for what? Maybe a week? And you're so sure the mod has gone in a good direction? You remember the days of BG1 and the amount of activity the mod had back then. Today we have 1 server per night with players on it. Give me a damn break. If you're going to come back at least open up your eyes, we dont need any more blind men on the dev team.


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jackx
post Jun 18 2010, 12:04 PM
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Sorry to disappoint, there's no big bg2 developer conspiracy to secretly ruin the mod and make all your lives miserable because they revolve exclusively around your vision of bg gameplay.

The last time members of the NA community really didn't like regular bg2, they made ALT instead of starting round after round of petulant complaints.
Go and make bg2TIE or whatever you want to call it, nobody is stopping you.


As to what Death is after, I'm not really sure - yes, there are a lot of APs on the dev team, and given the state of the NA community, that'll cause e-drama, but afaik they're on the team because they actually get things done, not to drive people mad with conspiracy theories.

Bg has never "phased out" old members, just about everyone who's been at the team on one point or another still has their team privileges, and I agree that that can be confusing.
Or rather, it could be, if there were a lot of those people around, but the fact is, I'm the only one, I've labelled myself as a "former member" quite clearly, and apart from the internal discussion on the "quickscope exploit" or rather messed up IS accuracy values, I've made a point out of keeping out of internal development discussions, only chiming in on community-related issues, such as the redirects.
That's the extent of the "behind-the-scenes" influence currently being exerted, my apologies if that doesn't satisfy your need for a group of twisted former team members maliciously scheming to ruin bg2.
Decisions are usually the product of group discussions, there's no one person "running the show".

Maps were discussed recently, no need to repeat that discussion IMHO.


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TIEdup14
post Jun 18 2010, 12:10 PM
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Yes jackx, every time someone thinks a change should be made they should make their own version of the game. That makes a lot of sense. cat.gif


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jackx
post Jun 18 2010, 12:32 PM
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It'd at least give their ideas a greater chance of success compared to insisting others ought to do it for them. You can of course choose to use the latter approach, I'd just ask you to spare us the repeated lamentations when (quite predictably) it doesn't produce the results you want.

But tbh, I'm not sure why I even bother - it's not about (factual) discussion, so anything that doesn't suit preconceived opinion is just going to be disregarded in pursuit of whatever fantasy you've lost yoursefl in.

Edit: I rest my case. A self-proclaimed community activist who ditches his own project because the community wants him to continue, but he didn't get the "support from" (read: leverage over) the dev team he hoped for. I wonder what the "community at large" thinks about that - or rather, would think, if it didn't just exist in your mind.

There's one more thing I'd like to point out though, just for the sheer hilarity of it: At the time at which, according to your own description, bg1 thrived, the official stance on community input was that "as far as customer satisfaction is concerned, that is irrelevant."


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TIEdup14
post Jun 18 2010, 12:32 PM
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Also, I think you and the other devs have a rather big misconception-- the thoughts I post are not solely my own. I represent the BG2 public community at large, both explicitly (people telling me what they think should happen) and non-explicitly (people not playing the game, the fact that this board is a ghost town). Between the. and BFTC (both bg2 communities that I have created from scratch) I have over 150 voices in my ear so I would say that's a significant portion of BG2's patrons (if not an outright majority).

But yes, please keep insulting Community Activists like myself and Death! It's not like we've ever done anything positive for the mod! sorcerer.gif

Jackx are you serious? A link from here to the BFTC website is "leverage" to you? That's pretty sad.

This post has been edited by TIEdup14: Jun 18 2010, 12:49 PM


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jackx
post Jun 18 2010, 01:15 PM
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If it was the link you wanted, you have only yourself to blame for not getting it.

But the issue of the link, and your behaviour with regard to that, isn't what led me to cast doubt on your motives in running BftC. It currently runs fine without official support, so clearly, "lack of support" seems a rather unconvincing reason to not continue with it, particularly as individual developers clearly expressed their support and desire to help.
Combined with the earlier failure to "force the teams hand" it does seem to paint a pretty clear picture of what you're after, though.


(Yes, I said I was resting my case, but then the live stream for Germany vs Serbia cut out, so I needed a mildly entertaining diversion. I'll let Tie continue his delusions of grandeur without further interruption now.)


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Forlorn_Hope
post Jun 18 2010, 01:39 PM
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Was this supposed to be a platform for the devs to introduce themselves, or simply bait for an argument? If it was the former, start a new thread. If it was the latter, and you want your argument heard out, try a little more tact next time.


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Jupa
post Jun 18 2010, 01:46 PM
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TIEdup14 you sound like a crazy person trying to overthrow a government.

"Also, I think you and the other Senators have a rather big misconception! My words in the senate chambers are not solely my own! I represent the Roman populace at large, both explicitly, people telling me what they think should happen, and non-explicitly, people abandoning Rome! Between the legions in Gaul and the plebian in the street I have over a million voices in my ear! I would say that's a significant portion of Rome's Populace, if not an outright majority!

But yes, please keep insulting Tribunes like myself and Lucius Deathicus Pompilius! It's not like we've ever done anything positive for Rome!"

This post has been edited by Jupa: Jun 18 2010, 01:48 PM


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Spartacus
post Jun 18 2010, 02:26 PM
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"Its been a growing concern and talk around our community that the Dev Team is recruiting like a Clan for one purpose and its not for the good of the mod."
Really? I haven't had anyone say that the Dev Team is "recruiting like a Clan *and* for *only* one purpose".

I'm just going to ignore everything Tiedup wrote, and go to the main idea Death wrote about (also ignoring his useless critique).
I do think it would be cool to have a little page on the site with information about what developers do what, who are currently active and such. It's obviously not neccessary, but it would definitely be a nice addition. It could also be easier for people who have problems / questions to find out who they should talk with.


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gRanTeLbArT
post Jun 18 2010, 03:19 PM
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I've been on the dev team for years. What you say here is nonsense, because I don't take part in any conspiracy at all. What the other dev team members do is not my business so long as it does not include destroying bg. I think I speak for Forlorn, jackx and Tjoppen as well. Being a dev team member does not mean everything you do is an official BG2 dev team act. The dev team does not officially sleep, eat, go to the toilet, make meals. Individuals do.

I'll elaborate further after reading through this mess.


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3DDEATH
post Jun 18 2010, 03:22 PM
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Forlon returns and has what role as a dev member, Yes dev team = AP. Look at Agents post, we r bot. When people come here it should look like pros running it and not the kids Area 51 picks at in game and yes we have heard it all. Jackx who I consider a friend and wont get into some of the things your fellow dev members stated about you but what is your role here to slam Tie because he speaks his mine about a mod he cares deeply for. His roots go back further then all of combined. Dev members slam me all the time and all I do is help the mod, wtf is wrong with u people. Below is my contributions to the mod in the 8yrs I have been around and I can find more and everyone pretty much knows my age.

Death - 8 yrs Experience
+]3D[+ leader for 7 yrs
Game server Specialist
Starting BGL back up after it Died with bg1, 2 yrs running
Repaired BG2 when Orangebox and TFC2 split breaking bg2
Mapper
Help invent the Pug 7 yrs ago, 3D ran a pug everyday for 2 yrs in bg1
Never cheated
Always Friendly to those who needed help with the mod
Only Mod Involved in.
Donated servers to needed clans starting out in bg
Offered Mirrors for bg1 and 2
Brought in Game server Providers with good support.
Posted on Major gaming sites Positive things about the mod

This post has been edited by 3DDEATH: Jun 18 2010, 03:23 PM


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QUOTE (gRanTeLbArT @ Aug 25 2007, 02:47 PM) *
I will tell you what I think, this is horrible. Like all the other remakes of BG1 maps. There is a reason why we do not do that in any form. Do not bother to remake old bg1 maps. BG1 was a totally different game as draco pointed out and the maps are not going to work out on BG2.






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Forlorn_Hope
post Jun 18 2010, 03:45 PM
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Death, I have great respect for just about everyone on this forum. Tie and I talk as friends would, and I have great respect for what you (Death) have done for the mod. It is appreciated, though it may not be voiced.

That being said, I already asked politely that this thread either be handled more tactfully (which I associate with professionally now, silly military). It has been made perfectly clear that the cover purpose of "get to know the devs" was just a fig leaf to air out grievances, in a manner I wouldn't typically associate with pillars of the community.

Now, because part of my job is to sort through a ton of garbage to find the grain at the heart of the matter, this is what I'm understanding:

People aren't certain who exactly is developing the game. Is this because of the tag "Team Member" on the forum, or something occurring within the game?
People are concerned by the lack of professionalism shown by people with the tag "Team Member" on the forum.
There is concern about the home page being updated. What exactly were you looking for?

Edit: Just to be thorough, and cover the vast majority of the rest of this, pretty much everything else looks like personality conflicts and ego comparisons. Feel free to correct me if I'm wrong, which I'm sure you will.


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TIEdup14
post Jun 18 2010, 03:53 PM
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QUOTE (Forlorn_Hope @ Jun 18 2010, 11:45 AM) *
People are concerned by the lack of professionalism shown by people with the tag "Team Member" on the forum.


YES, YES, 1000 times YES.

To address what jackx said: I am considering closing down BFTC. One reason is the clear and obvious actions by the dev team to not only fail to support this positive community group, but in fact to work against it. You will probably never agree with that; no matter as it is a minor issue. The major one is that because of the crap thrown at people like myself and Death, my desire to help the mod succeed in any form is rapidly waning. That will hopefully be addressed by Forlorn Hope; see the quote above re: lack of professionalism.

It seems that most replies here state that there is offense taken at the "lack of tact" from myself and Death. Ok, fine, I will acquiesce the point in the hopes that now we can focus on the issues at hand. I lack tact with my posts, sorry.

But no matter what, it's clear that Death and I care deeply about this mod and its success. Look at Death's resume, and hell, I am willing to pay people to make maps for this game out of my own pocket! (I would link you to the post but Hairy Potter deleted my *entire* posting history on these forums in a fit of rage) So again, apologies for the lack of tact, but certainly you can see why we would be a bit frustrated with the current state of affairs.

This post has been edited by TIEdup14: Jun 18 2010, 04:03 PM


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Forlorn_Hope
post Jun 18 2010, 04:03 PM
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OK. Now, why are you considering closing down BFTC? What support were you looking for that you haven't gotten received? Obviously, I just came back into the scene all of a week ago, so I'm not sped up on a lot of things.

As for the lack of professionalism, hopefully, perhaps, everyone will take a lesson from this. However, keep in mind, this is a gaming mod, done by volunteers. Everyone is here because they ultimately enjoy it more than not, and some people may enjoy goofing off on the forums. However, now that things are a bit more out in the open, as I said, perhaps things might be a little bit better.


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TIEdup14
post Jun 18 2010, 04:10 PM
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QUOTE (Forlorn_Hope @ Jun 18 2010, 11:45 AM) *
There is concern about the home page being updated. What exactly were you looking for?


How about a shared developer blog. Give all devs access to it so they can freely post info about what they are working on, what they will work on, ideas, etc etc. That'd be cool to see.

QUOTE (Forlorn_Hope @ Jun 18 2010, 12:03 PM) *
OK. Now, why are you considering closing down BFTC? What support were you looking for that you haven't gotten received? Obviously, I just came back into the scene all of a week ago, so I'm not sped up on a lot of things.


Check the forum homepage, and look at the "Leagues and Community Activities" section of the forums. BFTC is not represented in that section at all.

Thanks for your responses so far, I really do appreciate it. In the past most of my/Death's comments are deleted or swept under the rug in some way. That's why we began this thread with an admittedly negative tone. Not trying to excuse our behavior, just trying to shed some light on it. We will continue this thread with respect since you have offered it to us as well. :)

This post has been edited by TIEdup14: Jun 18 2010, 04:14 PM


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jackx
post Jun 18 2010, 04:12 PM
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Edit: Maybe the situation isn't as bleak as I made it out in the initial version of this post, which therefore is no longer relevant and should be ignored if anyone saw it.

Still, I've just about had it with placing myself between the fronts in these arguments that seem fuelled by personal hostility as much as by any disagreement over the direction of mod development as often as not in an attempt to mediate.

Maybe I've cut the dev team too much slack because of the progress they achieved, but more likely, I just don't care about personal animosity one way or the other, because I'm an indifferent and cynical bastard.

In any case, I've become to involved, and as Death has correctly pointed out, the position of pragmatic neutrality I was striving for has been lost in the progress, making me part of the problem and not the solution by perpetuating personal arguments. There were too many trolls feeding each other, and I temporarily became one of them. My apologies for that.


Grantel has a point, but so do those who request more professionalism - a developer may not always act in an official capacity, but they should be aware of when they can be construed to be doing so, and behave accordingly. Still, the 2400 year old observation in my signature stands, and there's little that can be done about it. bas as it may be for the mod. :x


Personally, I'm not big on continuously sharing the development process with the community, as that creates too much debate and too little results, but that's not my choice to make. The curren cycle of feedback-"closed door" development - feedback/testing seems to work well enough to not need much change, IMHO, but it's obviously up to the devs to how they handle this.
Since development also is not a steady and continuous progress, regular updates would be hard to provide, and a lack of regular updates in a system designed for it would probably create a worse public image.


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no truth - no justice
all false belief
blinded by morality
there shall be... no peace
no peace!

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AngryIRSAgent
post Jun 18 2010, 04:20 PM
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QUOTE (TIEdup14 @ Jun 18 2010, 07:13 AM) *
Hell, look at Agent. Couldnt even muster up a serious reply to this thread. His past project Miningtown was a huge bust. And what kind of map is he working on next? Yet another failure in the making, a shitty fort map! Instead of giving people small, BGL maps that they ask for, he's going for another grandiose project. It'll be just like miningtown-- a map that no one plays.


**Initiate Dev Team Member Insult Sheild**

peww*

peww*

In reference to bg_miningtown being so huge. Im here to defunk your monkey hurling poop approach. bg_miningtown is actually a larger attack/defend map that is broken down into smaller progressive spawn locations. These progressive spawn locations would entertain the idea of 6 small maps. So the map itself may be big, but the gameplay is confined into a much smaller(bgl) fighting area.


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Forlorn_Hope
post Jun 18 2010, 04:28 PM
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Alright, a BFTC link has been added to the forum in the appropriate location, and it works as intended to the best of my knowledge. Agent does a very nice impression of JP from that movie, Grandma's boy.

If there are issues with maps, please, take them up with mappers elsewhere for the time being. We can come back to that at a later time when it is a more pertinent issue.


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Spartacus
post Jun 18 2010, 04:35 PM
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Tiedup, you were the one that didn't want your link there. You took back your request.

"If you want to make a community page and throw BFTC under it, by all means go for it. But I'm not going to fight a tidal wave of trolls and people who dont even know what BFTC is (linebattles, are you serious?) for something that wont be of much use to us. I'll just make a thread here to update anyone interested on the BFTC; no worries." - Tiedup Jun 8th 2010.

Don't complain now that you don't have a link, when you yourself that it wouldn't be useful for you.


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3DDEATH
post Jun 18 2010, 04:35 PM
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QUOTE (3DDEATH @ Jun 18 2010, 03:22 PM) *
Forlon returns and has what role as a dev member, Yes dev team = AP. Look at Agents post, we r bot. When people come here it should look like pros running it and not the kids Area 51 picks at in game and yes we have heard it all. Jackx who I consider a friend and wont get into some of the things your fellow dev members stated about you but what is your role here to slam Tie because he speaks his mine about a mod he cares deeply for. His roots go back further then all of combined. Dev members slam me all the time and all I do is help the mod, wtf is wrong with u people. Below is my contributions to the mod in the 8yrs I have been around and I can find more and everyone pretty much knows my age.

Death - 8 yrs Experience
+]3D[+ leader for 7 yrs
Game server Specialist
Starting BGL back up after it Died with bg1, 2 yrs running
Repaired BG2 when Orangebox and TFC2 split breaking bg2
Mapper
Help invent the Pug 7 yrs ago, 3D ran a pug everyday for 2 yrs in bg1
Never cheated
Always Friendly to those who needed help with the mod
Only Mod Involved in.
Donated servers to needed clans starting out in bg
Offered Mirrors for bg1 and 2
Brought in Game server Providers with good support.
Posted on Major gaming sites Positive things about the mod



This is my last post on the matter, but plz look at New roobs sig and again a insult towards me, Agent and Area 51 always trying to overthrow me or find things against me, HP and nathan hale running clan in bgl called TF and making there names Bots so they can troll the league then running a script during match just to get kicked out, Again another stab at me. Its like this is there mod and there mod only and like Agents claims we are (dev we can do want ever we want). Now grow up and lets make this mod better rather then shoot everyone down because they try to help. What are we so afraid of. This is what we dont want as Dev members, they should be supportive not assholes trying to overthrow as in one of the above new account post.


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QUOTE (gRanTeLbArT @ Aug 25 2007, 02:47 PM) *
I will tell you what I think, this is horrible. Like all the other remakes of BG1 maps. There is a reason why we do not do that in any form. Do not bother to remake old bg1 maps. BG1 was a totally different game as draco pointed out and the maps are not going to work out on BG2.






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gRanTeLbArT
post Jun 18 2010, 04:38 PM
Post #25


aaaaaa | TRR scream team
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I think I'll actually be happy if you quit BFTC and quit "supporting" bg2 altogether. And that from a person who removes your forum suspension and actively plays in BFTC. Now make what you want of this.



You cause more grievance and mess with anything you post. You cause me 500% more trouble than this board is used to for nothing but mere self promotion. You won't make any friends on the dev team with that.


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